AstroSpeak: Qua's Quests

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General Observation Reports
Qua's Quests (April 1st, 2002 - May 18th, 2002)

Dave's Original Email to Astro.Geekjoy
Recommended Mount For MK-67
Patience is a Virtue I must try and develop
...and I missed the football on TV!!
Shooting Stars and a Glass of Whisky
Hide & Seek Plus A Humbling Experience
Suffering for the Hobby
Work for Idle Hands
Size Does Matter
It's Come, At Last!!

Dave's Original Email to Astro.Geekjoy

Posted: April 1st, 2002, 03:10:52 pm

Hi Jeff, I'm a newcomer to astronomy and have just started to develop an interest at the ripe old age of 57!

I've just been browsing around your web site and although I didn't understand a lot of it, I just wanted to say thanks for the excellent site which will be a regular stopping off place for me as I get more into the hobby.

OK, that's the Hi and the Thanks bits now for the Help!

I've just returned from a business trip to Russia and while I was there I bought a Intes MK-67 scope for $150 in a market. It came with a couple of lenses (15mm Erfle and 25mm Plossle, a 3x Barlow, a star diagonal and what seems like a set of extension tubes. These tubes screw together to make a length of about 9 inches (one of the segments has a very thick lens in it) and one end fits into the back of the main scope tube at the focussing rack) while the other end takes the eyepiece.

I have a few questions which, if you have the time, I'd be very grateful if you could answer.

My apologies for the length of the email and the number of questions but I hope you can give me some help. Any thoughts on how I can get started would be much appreciated

~Dave Qua

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Recommended Mount For MK-67

Posted: April 1st, 2002, 04:36:33 pm

Hi Dave,

Its getting dark and I just read your email. I hope to give you a fuller answer to your questions later. But right off let me say congrats on the MK67 - You probably returned the price of an airline ticket just in the savings...

The extension tubings you mentioned are probably used to extend the focus for nearby terrestrial use - although I can not explain why any of them would have a lense...

As for a mount, I would recommend something equatorial since you are interested in lunar-planetary (due to the high magnifications involved). The minimum mount for an MK67 is what I use - a CG4/EQ3. These are relatively inexpensive starter equatorials (~$250). To get anything more than this means stepping up to a Vixen Grand Polaris or Losmandy G8 mount (a CG5 is probably not a good choice) - Vixen's and Losmady's cost around 1 grand.

If you get a good eq, be sure to get digital setting circles (DSC) and geo-synchronous (clock) drive so things stay in the field of view without fiddling around all the time (especially at high magnifications). You will want the DSC later as you get more advanced and go after galaxies and such...

I do not recommend goto - one major joy of using star hopping and other techniques is the thrill of discovery and learning the sky. Personally I'd only go with Goto if I had an observatory scope...

I hope this gets you started, if you want me to explain in more detail please feel free to write back.

Carpe Noctem,

jeff

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Jeff,

I'm confused. (not an unusual state these days for me I should immediately add). You said the CG5 is probably not a good choice. Why not? I thought that the cg5 was an upgrade (improvement) on the cg4. We've both agreed that the cg4, though not ideal, is adequate, and thus the cg5 should be even better....or am I wrong on I disagreeumption that the cg5 is an improved cg4?

Otto

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Hi Otto,

I do have a CG5 hanging about overhere. It came with my Intes M603 and I have used it until I got a second hand Vixen GP-DX last year. The latter is indeed more stable and the engines do buzz "nice" but the CG5 can easily carry a telescope the size of the M603. Be aware that there are two models of the CG5. The old one had a ball-bearing on one axis only and the other axis was therefore difficult to handle, the new version does not have this. They can be recognized from the shape of the outside parts also.

regards

Cor

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Hi Otto,

Yes, as I understand it, the CG5 is an improvement over the CG4. But in my estimation, if you are going to buy a mount for a lifetime, get a Vixen, Losmandy etc. Whereas if you are going "cheap and temporary" spend far less money and get the CG4 because it is adequate (and sooner or later will make a superb mount for that shorttube scope you will buy for wide field use...) The CG5 is "twixt and tween". A casual astronomer would be satisfied with it, but for some strange reason I don't think Dave will fall into that category!

jeff

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Patience is a Virtue I must try and develop

Posted: April 2nd, 2002, 11:05:11 am

These will be the ramblings of a complete novice in astronomical terms as he attempts to find his way around the sky and see some of the things that so far have been confined to the pages of books for him. I am sure there will be many times when I write something that, to a non-novice, is obviously rubbish. If (when!) you notice that I have done this I would be very grateful if you would tell me so I can learn along the way (but please be gentle with me)

If you have read the topic above you will have realised that at the moment I have a telescope (MK-67) but no mount or tripod for it. I have been using a camera tripod with singular lack of success.

Well, the good news is that today I ordered a mount and tripod. The bad news is that it will be 3 weeks before it is delivered.

On of the good things about the internet is that it is very easy to compare prices and models of anything from a whole host of retailers at the press of a button. The downside of this is that I managed to confuse myself completely. However I managed to fight my way through the information overload that I had given myself and ordered an EQ5 mount (apparently the EQ5 has replaced the EQ4 here in the UK or so I was told) I also ordered dual drives and the appropriate mounting rings for my scope. I was amazed at the difference in price from retailer to retailer going from a high of $800 to a low of $600 for the whole order. When I think that I paid $150 for the scope it seems crazy (but necessary!)

Now I have to wait for 3 weeks before I can really get stuck in. Initially I was a bit disappointed with the enforced wait but now I have decided to look on the bright side and use the waiting time to gain a bit of knowledge. If we ever get clear skies again here in the UK (it has been cloudy for the last three nights) then I will get out in the back garden with a pair of binoculars in one hand and a star map in the other and try to find my way round the sky in a fairly broad way.

I’ve also been reading a couple of the astronomy magazines (Astronomy Now a UK mag and Astronomy plus Sky and Telescope both US mags). I can forsee an immediate problem. I love gadgets! Any sort, any type I love ‘em!! Reading some of the adverts in these magazines it seems to me that astronomy is one of those hobbies that has more than its fair share of things that will revolutionise my life and make my hobby more fulfilling. Fortunately at the moment I don’t understand what most of the gadgets do but as my knowledge increases I will have to put a lock on the credit card.

Just writing these few lines is making me feel quite excited. I love the feelings you get at the start of a new hobby. There is the fear that there is so much to learn that it sometimes seems impossible combined with the excitement of reading about new things and the huge satisfaction when you learn or understand something completely new.

Anyway I’m off now to look at the star chart for this evening. I’m sure there will be a break in the clouds sometime tonight!

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Hi Dave,

I am just across you street ... straight over Dover that is. I live in a small village near Vlissingen in the Dutch Delta Area. So I also know the weather conditions you are mentioning, I had a small break in the bad weather last thursday/friday. Not too bad weather ... you could actually see the stars.

On the gadget-part of your story, there's indeed lots of them and unlike many other hobbies you will see that they can be combined from different brands. Standardisation has been done more than Ive seen in other fields.

Hope you fare well under clear skies,

Cor

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Hey, Dave... About time for me to publically welcome you to AstroTalk, eh?

I think it's wonderful you've acquired the much acclaimed Mak scope, and the prized mount! These "gadgets" will eventually prove themselves worth the money should you decide to get into astrophotography. Just ask Cor what can be done with a webcam... and even I've experimented with such simple equipment and afocal (just held to the eyepiece, dude...) 35mm and camcorder work.

Please keep patience at the top of your list... for with it, practice and persistance will bring a lifetime of reward. Each night will become a voyage of discovery...

And each failure a lesson learned.

And the friends we have here are the finest of teachers.

~T

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Hi Dave,

Patience! Absolutely! I sure wish I had more. Try this out:

Ultimately I would like AstroTalk to have its own remote observatory. Located preferably in the southern hemisphere - say New Zealand. It would have a 24 inch obscession dob, a 12 inch MCT and a 140mm F7 APO. All three scopes could be operated over the internet. CCD images would reprocess the input using techniques developed by one Cor Berrevoets and multicast over the internet to subscribers and members. Subscribers would be schools, clubs, and individuals throughout the Blue Planet. They would pay only a very small subscription to underwrite the operation.

AstroTalk members would schedule to visit, use and maintain the equipment while pursuing "soft-core" science - the kind presented on astro.geekjoy.com and embodied in DBLGUTTeam activities...

But you know what? I can't do this alone. And I have to be patient enough for the right team to come along plus the necessary finances etc...

In this lifetime? Who knows!

jeff

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...and I missed the football on TV!!

Posted: April 3rd, 2002, 04:23:57 pm

What is it with looking at the stars? I was all set to watch the soccer game on TV tonight as Liverpool (who I support) were playing and it was a fairly important game. Then the skies cleared and the stars began to appear. The result was that I watched about 3 mins of the game and 87 mins of stars!!

I was out in the back garden just as the sun was setting. I was determined that I would sit in the back garden with a pair of binoculars and slowly work my round some of the sky. They say that the road to hell is paved with good intentions. Well within about thirty seconds of Venus appearing in the twilight I had the telescope out and was frantically trying to find the planet.

Earlier in the day I had discovered that I could move the finder scope onto the other side of the tube. As I have bad sight in my right eye I had been going through incredible contortions to see through the finderscope so this move was definitely going to make my life easier. It wasn't until I tried to find Venus that I realised that an important extra task when moving the finderscope is to realign it with the telescope!

Despite this small setback I fairly soon had Venus centred in the eyepiece. I'm not sure it was really worth it as all I could see was a fairly small image of something white that resembled a three-quarters moon. Unfortunately I am still only able to use the 25mm eyepiece as any greater magnification on my shaky tripod is a joke. Additionally there was a sort of orange peel effect over and around the planet. I assume this was air turbulence or something similar.

By this time Jupiter had appeared and I found it fairly easily. All four moons were showing plus I could see two distinct bands one around the equator and one about a third the way down from the top. [QUESTION: when you are describing what you see, is it convention to describe it as seen through the eyepiece (ie inverted) or do you describe it as though you had seen it with the naked eye?]

The view of Jupiter was so good that I decided to try and see it with the 25mm EP plus the 3x Barlow lens. Have you ever tried to find an object in the sky with a shaky tripod which has very stiff controls in both vertical and horizontal directions and also has a major backlash problem in both directions? It must be the most frustrating thing on earth. Just occasionally Jupiter whizzed through the eyepiece and was gone before I could do anything about it. I managed to get it into view in the bottom third of the EP but before I could focus properly it had disappeared again. If we had a cat I would have kicked it there and then. However I consoled myself with the thought that things would be better once my new mount arrived.

After all that, just to make me feel happier again I had a look at Saturn which is guaranteed to chase the blues away. I think I saw two moons. There was one a short distance away to the south west (as seen in the eyepiece) and the other was almost diametrically opposite and about eight times the distance away. [Question: how do I know in this instance if they are moons or just another star? I am assuming that they were moons because they appeared more distinct and disk like than a normal star – is this logical?]

I then searched for and found (!!) the Pleiades which were stunning. I wassn’t really sure initially that they were the Pleiades but comparison with a picture in one of my book confirmed them. I am still having some problems translating a star chart into what I actually see in the sky also the difference in view through the finderscope and through the telescope with the star diagonal takes some getting used to – I expect/hope practice will resolve the problem.

After all this I decided that I really should have a look round using the binoculars so I focussed on Jupiter and from there managed to find Betelgeuse, Bellatrix, Rigel, Sirius and finally Procyon.

So all in all an excellent evening. (and Liverpool won the game!)

Dave

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Hi, Dave!

LOL! I don't think I've watched television in years! (ok... i'm lying. i watch the old "star trek" every night, and occassionally enjoy a movie when it's cloudy.)

Your descriptions of Venus are spot on. You'll never see anything more than its' "phasic" nature. But what fun it is!

Describing Jupiter isn't very difficult... Just say three moon were on one side and the other was... (ouch, Jeff! you didn't have to kick me so hard!) The easiest way to tell north from south at the eyepiece is the north temperate zone. (it shows as a fine, dark line apart from the main zones.)

Saturn is easy, too! Bright Titan moves very slowly and predictably about the planet. The inner moons always stay very close to the rings themselves... and Iaepetus orbits well outside of Titan.

Have Patience, you'll learn! The more you Practice, the better you become.. and if you're really Persistant?

You'll get a radio that broadcasts TV bands so you can do both...

Rock on, Dave!

~T

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Shooting Stars and a Glass of Whisky

Posted: April 5th, 2002, 03:27:30 pm

Clear skies again tonight so it was on with the jacket and out with the telescope.

After a quick look at the planets I was just wandering around the sky looking at who knows what (somewhere a bit to the south of Jupiter) when suddenly a shooting star passed through the eyepiece. It took about a second to cross the diameter of the EP and was just like a pinpoint of light moving across the sky. This is the first time I have ever seen a shooting star and it was just fortuitous that I was looking thought the scope at the time.

For quite a while I have believed that I couldn’t see Polaris from my back garden because of houses in the way. This was causing me some concern as I wasn’t too sure about setting up my EQ mount when it eventually arrives (only 2 weeks and 5 days to go but who’s counting!). I discovered tonight that I can see it just over the roof line of the house. I identified it by following the two pointer stars in the Big Dipper. Just to make sure that I really was looking at Polaris I got it in the centre of the EP and left it there for 30 mins. As it hadn’t moved at all after this time I assume it is Polaris.

I spent quite a bit of time this evening just looking at patches of sky without knowing what I was looking at but just enjoying the view. It is amazing sometimes that when you initially look through the scope you don’t see anything much. However I have found that if you take a deep breath and relax then suddenly stars appear from nowhere. Some of them are almost ghostly in that they are there one moment, gone the next then reappear some seconds later. At times I wonder if I am imagining seeing some of them.

I think it is fairly fortunate that I am able to just go out in the back garden and look at the stars because I have noticed a strange increase in the number of things which I now regard as essential to have around me when I am star gazing. Here is the current list

I’m adding the kitchen sink tomorrow.

I’ve been reading about the Telrad Finder on the ‘net and it certainly seems to be extremely useful. I am seriously thinking of buying one. Has anybody got any experience of using this and if so is it really as good as it seems?

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Hi Dave,

I am not fond of whisky but I do like wines and the like but .... astronomy and alcohol ... dont mix very good. If you are going for "deepsky" and other fuzzies I would advice you not to use alcohol before but after the scoping. For the average sky-scan or planet-gaze or lunatic-ing a drop of the spirit will not interfere.

Just to let you know !! Hope you had a bit of sky last eve ... I did

Cor

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Hi All,

Last year I spent a good many nights under dark sky conditions on a ridge overlooking the Pacific Range (China Ridge). There was a precipitous drop off just south of where I set up the scope. Even without spirits, I would feel a little light headed observing there. Perhaps a different type of "spirits" were involved...

Thinking about it, some nights I've experienced under the stars have been so "deep" that my head "swam". It's almost as if I were levitated and "walked on air". The Night Sky can surely fix "wings on your heels".

I think folks "take up the spirits" in general because they are searching for that trancendental sense of intoxication which often comes with being connected with the universe. Our "High Art and Science" is perhaps one of the finest means to accomplish this. Otto often speaks of this in his writings on AstroTalk. And I certainly sense this in T. Deep inside AstroTalk's resident scientist and mathematician (Cor), is this same profound respect for the universe. I suspect it is native to all of us who turn eye, heart, hand, and mind to the Night Sky. All we need do now is recognize this as perhaps being at root of our astronomical pursuit...

Carpe Noctem,

jeff

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(the rational thinking process has returned... )

Hey, now!

Quit picking on Dave!!!

Much to the chagrin of my colleagues, I also have a fondness for the "spirits of the night"! (hehhehee... my choice of poison? corona with a twist of lime.)

The key to learning the night sky IS relaxation, Dave. Be it with a cup of tea, a mug of coffee, a carafe of wine, a shot of whiskey or a glass of beer! To me, there is nothing finer than a good observing session (complete with loud rock and roll), and ending up in the lawn chair with a cold beer watching the stars wheel by. Enjoying yourself is the bottom line!

I'm glad to hear that you've caught the rise in meteoric activity. The last night I (we?) observed, the random rate had increased greatly. Reality check? Probably wouldn't have even noticed them had I not been looking up and talking to the night sky! (and it was coffee... i swear. )

What Jeff speaks of is Truth. For I have experienced it... I know most of you aren't into rock music, but the words of this young man from Stain'd sum up the Cosmic Experience rather well:

"And you, bring me to my knees.
Again.
All these times,
That I could beg you please?
For me...
I'm on the outside,
I'm looking in...
I can see through you.
See your true colors."

There is something out there. And it means something different to everyone of us. Keep seeking, Dave. You'll find it!

Cuz' when I see a meteor blaze across the sky, find structure in a galaxy, split a double star, resolve a cluster, or just watch the stars go by...

"This is how you remind me...
Of what I really am."

I am touched all over again.

Still looking up and thinking! And rockin' the night away...

~T

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OK, now that I've gone of on a rant here...

Telrad!

When I use the observatory scope, the Telrad is an important part in aiming, because the finder (a 4" refelctor) is at the bottom (28 ft. down). It is essentially a "reflex" sight.

I also have a Orion Laser sight that I used for awhile, but it is nothing more than a "reflex sight". Most conventional finderscopes have reflex sights built right into them. They are nothing more than a "hole" that basically shows you roughly where you are pointed in the sky. Much like aiming down the barrel of a gun, rather than looking into the gun's finderscope.

Nine times out of ten, I "reflex" targets that are well known to me, and don't even tighten down the scope until it's in the eyepiece.

Try practicing the "reflex" technique on the M3... Point the scope in the general area of Cor Caroli and Arcturus. Draw a mental line between the two. Now, "reflex" point the scope at the area slightly more than 1/3 the distance above Arcturus and go to the eyepiece! When you find it?

You owe me a beer...

~T

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Hi Dave,

One of the things you really get out of observing after a while is a sense of context.

The universe is presented on many scales of magnification.

The earth only allows us to see at most 180 degrees of the sky at any given time. Trees and structures block a significant portion of the skyline. Our eyes take in about 60 degrees of whats left but really allow us to examine about30 degrees in any detail.

Add a pair of binoculars and you are down to about 7 degrees. A finderscope narrows you down to about 5 degrees. A rich field refractor about 3. That Mak of yours to about 1 degree at 50x or so - the lowest magnification you normally have available.

Each step along the way you lose something. And that something is a sense of context. The visual neighborhood gets smaller and smaller.

From an entire hemisphere down to a continent, a country, a state, to a city. Then at higher magnifications a burrough.

Something is lost: "sweep" and something is gained: "detail".

The Telrad is a good tool to help you contextualize where you are looking. Here is the point and there is its neighborhood.

A decent investment. But you can simply sight along the tube too as T says.

I'd get one but at the end of a very long list of other needs/wants...

Carpe Noctem.

jeff

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Hide & Seek Plus A Humbling Experience

Posted: April 16th, 2002, 05:03:50 pm

Early in the evening I was playing with a planetarium program on the computer when I realised that i couldn't see Saturn! Further investigation revealed that Saturn was hiding behind the moon and this event (my first special astronomical event) was due to take place at around 9.30pm that evening. On a side note, I really must make an effort to find out and learn the correct terminology for things like this. For the moment I will call it a Saturnalian eclipse!

A mad dash round, to gather all the paraphernalia that I nowadays seem to regard as essential to star watching, and I was soon out in the garden with the scope pointed towards the Moon. Sure enough there was Saturn about a moon diameter away from our nearest neighbour. I could also see what I assume is one of the moons of Saturn sitting between the planet and the moon.

Not having managed to delve into the murky art of astrophotography yet (although I can see that it is only a matter of time before that happens) I decided to make a couple of sketches of what I saw.

I am a lousy artist, as the accompanying sketches vividly demonstrate, but they are all I have to remind me of the scene.

These sketches are as seen through the eyepiece. Is this the correct way to present them or should I reverse them so that they are what would be seen with the naked eye?

Very slowly the two celestial bodies came together. At 21.52 the moon preceding Saturn disappeared from view and the outer ring of Saturn first touched the edge of the moon at 21.59. Two minutes later and saturn was completely hidden.

I fully intended to wait until the planet appeared on the opposite side of the moom but unfortunately my neighbour's house roof got in the way. I wonder if he would have any strong objections if I removed it!

Now for my humbling experience which I hope and pray has happened to somebody else and I'm not the only idiot on the planet.

I was looking at Castor and Pollox when I suddenly realised that there was what appeared to be a huge shower of metorites flooding down through my eyepiece. The excitement was immense until I realised that I hadn't tightened the clamp properly on the tripod and the telescope was slowly rotating and tilting up towards the zenith.

Another of my hobbies is woodworking and it is apparent that i shall have to rapidly use my skills in this area to make myself an adjustable height seat if i am to be able to watch the sky for any extended lenght of time.

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Bravo Ol' Chap!

You caught a Lunar Occultation of the Planet Saturn and not only that, you figured out it was about to happen without anyone telling you. Excellent!

In fact you not only caught the occultation, you did some real science. You timed the occultation (perhaps not to the nth degree of accuracy) and recorded both visual and textual descriptions of the event. (BTW: eyepeiece impressions like the ones you did are always "as seen through the scope". All you need due is put little "Ns" and "Ws" on them along the proper edge of the sketch so folks can tell the orientation.

Now here's the challenge I offer you: Why do you think astronomers might be interested in information related to occultations like this? (Especially ones that are timed to the fraction of the second using chronometers.)

Well done, my friend, well done!

jeff

PS: One other real virtues of having a Mak like our MK-67's is the wonderful observing position. The other night my friend Dan gave up on tracking through the galaxies of Leo and Virgo through his F8 APO refractor because he couldn't get low enough to the ground to look into the eyepiece! Meanwhile I sat comfortably in my little folding observing stool sweeping from Island Universe to Island Universe...

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Ah, another reason to swoon the 150 mak cass and eschew the apo clones....observing position.

Another reason to recognize the real temptation of questars: good observing position; and close, even microscopically close observations.

~Otto

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Jeff, I never could resist a challenge! However when you read the following please remember that I am an organic Chemist by training, a Packaging Specialist by profession and a Dabbler by inclination. Nowhere in my CV does the word mathematician appear.

I guess we know the distance to the moon and its size fairly accurately. Given that we can accurately measure the time that Saturn is hidden by the moon and we know the angular distance it has travelled in that time. Hence we can calculate its angular velocity and then easily calculate (!?) its distance from earth.

Comparison of this distance with other measurements taken during similar occultations would probably show an increase in this distance over time because I guess the gravitational pull of the sun is decreasing with time as it consumes itself. Calculation of the rate of change would enable an estimate of the life expectancy of our sun to be made

Now tell me what the correct answer is please.

~Dave

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Wow Dave! Can you get to e=mc2 from here too!

~jeff

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Yo Dave,

You really are a good sport!

Say listen. Think about what those old long hairs of yore accomplished. Step by step they gave us a true sense of the immensity of the Universe. Step by step, and all starting with crazy stuff like looking at the angle of the Sun from Heliopolis and Athens. The Greeks figured out the Earth was round. They could tell you how far you would have to go to get back to where you started. They figured out our planets diameter. Later things like transit timings (of Jupiter's Io) were used to determine the velocity of light.

Sure this kind of thing is easily accomplished now. But the ancients used the tools they had available.

"If we have seen further than others, it is because we stand on the backs of giants."

jeff

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Jeff, What do you mean 'Can we get to e-mc2?'

I'll settle for nothing less than discovering the meaning of life!

~Dave

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Suffering for the Hobby

Posted: April 26th, 2002, 05:38:24 pm

I am so cold that I can hardly type this - but who cares, I have seen Comet I/Z!.

I've just returned from a week's business trip to Germany and found an email from ~T in my inbox. It was in response to my recent posting about my inability to find comet I/Z and gave me a few directions to help. Probably the most helpful instruction was that 'it looks like a large fur ball through binos'

Thus stimulated I grabbed the binos and scope and dashed out into the back garden (in shirt sleeves) It's a nice clear night out there but I didn't realise that it was quite so chilly.

I found Polaris and Deneb easily enough (Deneb was just above the TV arial on the house) From a star map I had seen that the comet should have been about midway between Polaris and Deneb. It took me quite a while to find the 'fur ball' with the binos and even longer to find it with the scope but find it I did.

On reflection I think I had two problems that made it difficult for me to home in on I/Z. Firstly i still hve some problems in converting the distances on a star map into distances in the sky and secondly i think I was expecting to see the comet as I have seen it in several photos all of which were taken with considerable larger magnification than I have at my disposal. Just wait until I get my mount - 4 days and counting!

I hope I continue to get that immense feeling of satisfaction when I eventually manage to focus in on something for which I have been searching for quite a while. I suspect it is one of those things that make astronomy such a satisfying and fulfilling hobby

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Hi Dave,

Welcome back from your trip and hopefully your hands are all toasty by now!

How about a hint regarding "distance conversion" in the dome of the sky. First get a sense from the chart about how many "tens of degrees" two strudies are apart. Then extend your arm and make a fist. Each width of your fist (unless you have basketballs for hands) is about 10 degrees. So if Comet IZ is about 25 degrees north of Deneb then that's about two and a half fist-widths!

(Oh yah there I go in my "tech trainer" mode again!)

Barbour's first law: "You get about twice as much out of something as you put into it." No wonder that view of IZ was so exciting!

Clear and Steady,

jeff

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Way to go, Dave!!! I KNEW you could do it...

Listen to the tech trainer, because he knows what he's talking about. (Even if he hasn't found I/Z yet... )

And if all else fails? Ask directions, eh? In the meantime, practice Jeff's technique, and the angles I told you. Between these two?

The sky is the limit!

Cheers...

~T

"The more you suffer, the more it shows you really care..."

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Jeff/~T Thanks for the tips and help. Now if you hear of somebody being arrested in the UK for walking around with a clenched fist in the air....

~Dave

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hahahahaha!!! And thus another twist on the name you gave to this thread! ~jeff

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Work for Idle Hands

Posted: May 6th, 2002, 02:31:01 pm

With Southern England seemingly shrouded in cloud every evening/night at the moment (and despite ~T whetting my appetite with tales of meteor showers clearly visible in Utah) I decided to make this a construction weekend.

Wandering around our local town on saturday I spotted a web cam on sale for a fairly low price so I bought it. I have read a fair bit recently on the internet about converting a web cam for use in astrophotography and In fact Cor's articles on here look as though they could help me a lot.

Anyway I rushed home with the camera and set about it with a screwdriver and electric drill!! It was very easy to take apart and remove the lens. I then superglued the canister from a Fuji film onto the front of the camera . The Fuji canister is exactly the right diameter (1.25") for mounting on then scope. and voila I now have a camera for astrophotography. Only problem I can't see anything to photograph with it at the moment.

Part of Sunday and Monday have been spent in making a variable height observing seat. I can't claim any credit for the design (it was all available on the internet) but I now have a very nice comfortable seat that accomodated by backside at heights from 12" to 36" above ground level in increments of 2". Again I just wish there was something in the sky for me to look at so i could use the seat.

As if this was not enough I received my zoom EP on Friday. (Excellent service from a company called Apogee Inc in the US) Fortunately there was a little bit of clear sky on Friday evening so I tried it out and first impressions are very good. I'll report more flly when i have had a chance to use it a bit more.

My new mount arrives this week so the skies had better clear or else....

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Greetings Dave!

Another engaging and interesting Quest! Thanks for posting.

But it's getting a bit lonely here and things seem to have really slowed down on AstroTalk.

So I have a proposal for you...

Would you like to have your adventures posted on instead?

Traffic there is pretty good (50 plus visitors daily) and adding Qua's Quest there would be a real service to all the "newbies" taking up our hobby.

Let me know in this thread or at

barbour@ihwy.com

if you are interested.

Thanks,

jeff

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Way to go, Dave!

Now...

How do you feel about grinding a 32" mirror blank while it's cloudy, eh?

~T

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Jeff - Anything that helps others get some of the fun that I'm having has got to be a good thing. Let's go for it. Tell me what I have to do. Will you transfer existing post over there or should we start afresh?

~T. I'm pretty good with a Black and Decker Grinder - will that help?

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Size Does Matter

Posted: May 7th, 2002, 05:01:21 pm

Boy do I feel proud!! All alone I searched for and found the Beehive Cluster (M44) Now to you seasoned old pros this may not seem such a momentous occasion but to someone who occasionally has trouble locating Polaris it is akin to the discovery of penicillin!!

However let me start from the beginning.

At last we have clear skies in my part of the world so it was out with the scope while the sun was still above the horizon (I like to be prepared in advance) As the skies darkened Jupiter came into view so I had a look at it through my new zoom eyepiece and sitting on my newly made variable height observing chair. Both worked extremely well. I mooched around the sky for a while without any clear objective in mind until I had a look at the Planetarium program I have on my Palm Pilot. There I noticed the Beehive Cluster so I decided I would try and find it. Taking Procyon as one reference point and Pollux as the other I was able to home in on it surprisingly quickly.

What can I say about it – it was stunning. I’m sure I’m not the first to describe it as a handful of diamonds scattered on black velvet but that was just what it looked like. I spent ages just looking at it and everytime I looked I noticed something else in the cluster. To cap it all, partway through my viewing, a meteor lanced its way through the middle of the scene.

Like most newbie starwatchers I had the feeling that what I needed was magnification and yet more magnification. However looking at the Beehive Cluster I rapidly moved to my lowest magnification eyepiece (25mm) as this gave by far the best overall view of the cluster. In fact I am now working on a way of telling my wife that it is essential for my future happiness that I immediately purchase a 40 or 50mm EP. I always knew that size was important.

Now I need to finish with a couple of very silly questions.

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Hi Dave,

I was hoping one of the other "brainiacs" would respond to your questions (probably 'cause I really don't know the answers - hahaha). But here goes:

[quote] After looking at the Beehive Cluster I had a look at some photos of it in a book I have. My question is – are these photos printed as you would see the cluster through the telescope or are they as viewed with the naked eye? [/quote]

Some wide field shots of expansive studies such as "The Beehive" are done with astro-cameras. Such cameras have huge objectives (6 inches or so) and longish focal lengths (500mms for 10x). These pictures are developed like any camera and present the study normal to the way you might see them if you cocked your head in the same way. (Typically back to target field.) Other shots are taken through scopes using eyepiece projection or at prime focus. Depending on the scope involved, this may mean a reversal of left and right and/or up or down depending on the scopes archetecture, whether a diagonal was in use etc.

So basically Dave - you never know unless you recognize the lay of the study or the necessary info is provided in the photos caption: "South up, west left".

[quote] While I was generally scanning the sky tonight I noticed what I thought was a meteor in the sky. I picked it up as it went past Jupiter and had time to grab my binoculars and follow it all to way to the southern part of the sky. It took about 30 seconds to make the traverse. The question is – was it a slow meteor (is there such a thing) or could it have been a man made satellite? [/quote]

Although I have seen at least one meteor cross through Argo's field of view, it is very uncommon. Often you will notice a vapor trail (you are after all looking thru a scope or binoculars!). And the object moves by very swiftly (crossing in a fraction of a second). A satellite moves much more slowly (requiring maybe 3 or 4 seconds depending on magnification) and displays no vapor trail (unless falling out of orbit!)

Finally, if you spend much time near the celestial equator observing you may have the very surprising and exciting experience of seeing a stationary "star" in the field of view or a star that moves when it shouldn't because the clock drive is running. I'll leave it to you to ponder what could cause this!

Hope this helps,

jeff

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It's Come, At Last!!

Posted: May 17th, 2002, 10:40:46 am

After months and months of waiting (actually 4 weeks waiting but it felt like months) my new equatorial mount and drives have arrived. Two parcels turned up a couple of days ago. One large one, which made the delivery guy grunt, contained the EQ mount plus weights etc while the other small one contained the mounting rings and dual drives. What was conspicuous by its absence was any form of instructions for joining all the bits together! Although it looked daunting, fixing it all together was not too difficult.

So there I was with my scope mounted on a shiny new mount all ready to reach to the outermost parts of the universe and what did I get. Cloudy Skies for the next 3 nights, that’s what.

Although it was very frustrating it was in fact quite beneficial not being able to immediately dash outside and point things at the sky. I was forced to play with the mount indoors. I have become very proficient at quickly locating the right hand edge of the settee.

Anyway we got sort of clearish sky last night so I was out there and the mount is brilliant!! I roughly aligned things with Polaris and more by good luck than by skill I got things pretty much dead on as, using the motor drives, anything I pointed the scope at stayed in the field of vision (even at high magnification) for a considerable time. It really is a joy to be able to see Jupiter and the moon for extended periods of time without having to resort to swearing as the camera tripod wobbled.

In truth I didn’t do anything serious last night, I just played with things to find out what I could and couldn’t do. Stability and lack of wobble are the big joys together with being able to move the scope around easily using the motors. I still get some shake when I refocus but that is to be expected (Maybe I should buy an electric focuser!) The highest magnification I tried with an eyepiece was 170x using a 7mm EP and with this detail on the moon and on Jupiter was good allowing for the slightly cloudy conditions. I also tried things with the 3x Barlow but that was fairly disappointing. There was such a reduction in contrast that it was difficult to see anything. Again possibly due to the slightly cloudy conditions. I will give it another go when it is less cloudy. My thoughts are that the Barlow could be good when looking at something bright like the moon or planets but not so good for general starwatching. Anybody got any comments about this?

In fact the list is very much longer but these will do far a start!! They are all just teething problems and I am confident I will get them sorted out fairly quickly.

So what’s the overall verdict? It’s fantastic and was well worth waiting for. It will increase my enjoyment many fold. Now if only those clouds would disappear……..

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Yo Dave,

I am truly gladdened to hear that we did not steer you wrong toward that fine mount for your fine MK-67. Some thoughts:

And oh yes, I finally "got rid" of that pesky T ;>) so I can begin working on "Qua's Quest". Hope to have the "AstroTalkSpeaks" intro done this weekend.

Hey, you are doing great and it is a real pleasure to follow your progress. (My sense is that you have now moved from "Aries" to "Taurus" in your astro career. Hang in there. Get more experience and you will be amazed at how much you will learn of our High Art and Science over the next few months!

Carpe Noctem,

jeff

Dave Qua's continuing adventures are now found at Qua's Quest for Knowledge, Beauty, & Meaning Under the Night Sky

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